[BROOKS] You know, anecdotally, so many people
just tell me if I interact with the audience through social media, or they
call the show, or I meet them at these live shows we do, there’s so many
narratives that either go back to 2008 that that crisis hit them and things
have actually not really been the same since, or if they’re younger that
their whole perception of what their life trajectory was gonna be was
significantly altered, so therefore all of a sudden they weren’t particularly
interested to see what Fareed Zakaria had to say about a Davos meeting. They
wanted something that was real to their lives. And I think internationally
there’s an increasing recognition that in addition to dealing with you know the
humanitarian crisis and that and the terrorism of Trump administration policy
towards immigrant and refugee communities that there’s a global
dimension to that too. If you support a coup in Honduras as the Obama
administration did in 2009, and then you support a narco-state, as they do now,
that’s gonna generate the conditions of a refugee crisis, as an example. So I think
people are in place to think a little bit more in terms of systems and
patterns and that’s where the international stuff comes in.
[WOLFF] I’m particularly
struck with that because one of the least, for me in my perception, one of the
least developed aspects of the whole immigration crisis is the responsibility
that the United States has for causing the immigration in the first place.
[BROOKS] It’s the whole context.
[WOLFF] Let alone the abusive treatment when they get here. But the notion that we are
the pure victims of some unexplained process descending on us that we have no
agency in producing is amazing. [BROOKS] From Latin America to the Middle East, in
terms of military interventions, and then the global migration patterns due to
climate, that’s all emanating from the centers to the peripheries. And there’s a lot of people that I think are actually hungry to
hear something even beyond the standard white nationalist message, and then the
“No, you know, we’re a nation of immigrants, blah blah blah.”
[WOLFF] I’m struck too
because I hadn’t heard, until you just said it, that you have evidence that the
interest in international aspects is also growing.
I find that enormously encouraging, that it is
just here, we are in the United States, but a recognition of how embedded we are
in a larger world.
[BROOKS] Well, I mean it’s self-selected. If you’re watching,
listening to my show you have to be interested in the global dimension
because that is a big part of it. But I think that you know people do see these
patterns. They say “Why is Trump running this country? Who is this guy in
India or Brazil? What’s happening in Israel?” And then, you know, conversely the
sort of elite, legacy neoliberal media (or however you wanted to define it) they’re
obsessed with Trudeau and Macron and these people that represent this
collapse consensus. So they’re seeing a pattern, and also in the you know
positive analogs as well; what Corbyn offers, why Lula is in jail. and social
movements that they can graph themselves on to.