News Wire with Ayza Omar | Trump to Mediate Kashmir Issue| Pak's Role in AFG Peace Process| Ep 107|

News Wire with Ayza Omar | Trump to Mediate Kashmir Issue| Pak's Role in AFG Peace Process| Ep 107|

hello and welcome to newswire I'm either Omer a historical meeting took place between the leaders of Pakistan and the United States on Monday July 22nd the Prime Minister of Pakistan Imran Khan and President of the United States Donald Trump met for the first time for a one-on-one meeting in Washington DC since both assumed office but nothing caused as much uproar as president Trump's comment on Kashmir here's what he said I was with Prime Minister Modi two weeks ago and we talked about this subject and he actually said would you like to be a mediator or arbitrator I said we're said Kashmir because there's been going on for many many years I was surprised at how long it's been going going along every two years I think they'd like to see it resolved and I think you'd like to see it resolved that if I can help I would love to be a mediator the u.s. u.s. president statements almost indicates that there is a shift in a long-standing US policy when it comes to the Kashmir issue and that is essentially what it's been that it must be solved bilaterally between India and Pakistan now in response Prime Minister Prime Minister Han has also said that he wish it this could be resolved with America's help and that if it was billion people would send him prayers but India was quick to deny any such it claims in fact Rahul Gandhi a member of the Indian National Congress he sent out a tweet demanding an explanation from Prime Minister Modi saying that the External Affairs Ministry in denying it was a very weak statement there has been a lot of uproar in the houses of the upper and lower house of India as Parliament and so at the same time a quick statement from the external ministry spokesperson came Ravikumar who said so much for such request has been made by Prime Minister Narendra Modi to the US president it has been India's consistent position that all outstanding issues with Pakistan are going to be discussed bilaterally also in the upper house today India's external face minister s Jaishankar had to face an enraged opposition demanding an answer during an upper house session let's take listen I would like to categorically assure the house that no such quest has been made by the Prime Minister okay before we get into the details let me introduce the guests who are joining us to comment on this we have with us miss an aura that was seen the editor of Kashmir Times she's joining us from Jammu and we also have mr. Ashraf Jeong Gyo Kazi former ambassador right now in the Islamic studios and also mr. Muslim will talk or an analyst joining us from London I want to start with you miss uh Narada about this statement and how it's caused a bit of a stir from the not just the upper house the External Affairs Minister has also spoken in India what do you make of the reaction that is coming from something as simple as that he would like to help that mr. Trump has spoken about his willingness to help or mediate in Kashmir making it a slight departure from the US position in the past is obviously linked to the whole Afghanistan question the peace deal on Afghanistan necessitating that there needs the there is need for settling Kashmiri as well because both the situation's of gana Stan and Kashmir have a bearing on each other so it's important if you want peace in on one side you have to have peace on the other side and especially you know with respect to Pakistan which shares borders with both Afghanistan and and India there is an imperative need to settle Kashmir as far as people of Kashmir are concerned the issue has been pending for 70 years and it is a it is in dire need of resolution but where this whole controversy of words arises I mean if you look at the history of Trump and you look at the history from mr. Modi heading India they are both known to be compulsive liars but I think at this point it is irrelevant who is speaking the truth and what has really been happening what is more important is that negotiations on Kashmir resolution of Kashmir is imminent and it will be difficult for any of the stakeholders to escape it or to play politics on it any longer okay and it was mr. resembled talk what if I could get your trade it's not important anymore as Miss and you rather was seen highlighted on who said what and whether there is any truth considering we're talking about president Trump here is known to of course have a certain style of rhetoric where the Prime Minister Modi even mentioned this Kashmir issue and that he needed a mediator is it important really or is it time that a mediation sort of does occur I think after a long time that the issue of Kashmir has been spoken off by the White House specifically by a sitting president at the same time I also consider that when he made the comment it was an off the comment off-the-cuff remark I don't think there was any seriousness in it I don't think it is in line with their foreign policy over there South Asia policy at all president Trump often makes off-the-cuff remarks which are unsubstantiated which have no bearing on anything at all and quite immediately after his statement about an hour after his statement one of his offices said that it is still a bilateral issue between India and Pakistan we hope that they will resolve the issue completely negating everything that Trump had actually said this in itself shows that although that the President of the United States the so-called leaders of the world's democracy mentioned Kashmir wants to mediate suggested that moody intervened moody asked him to intervene and is willing to be a mediator it may not be in complete line with the policy of America at the moment so it doesn't really make a difference what he has actually said what matters is is whether India is still willing to actually regardless if there is a third party intervention if India will still negotiate or Kashmiri if they will sit and have a discussion a discourse on Kashmiri including the Kashmiri okay and now bringing you into this conversation mr. Ashraf what's your on this I mean it is definitely always been since 1972 and again in 1999 the Lahore declaration a bilateral issue that both parties have ratified have agreed upon but if these two nuclear-armed States go to war on an issue like Kashmir which is anything close to being resolved that too is the bilateral is beyond bilateral cause then there's going to be human loss of a of an extent that won't justify it being held up for so long yes number one the UN Security Council resolutions and Kashmir may not have delivered a settlement or are likely to deliver a settlement but they are legal they are still extant they are still relevant India as a particular position with regard to them but Shimla reaffirms the United Nations Charter and actually takes note of the formal position of both sides so it recognizes both sides the Indian side or the Indian point-of-view and Kashmir as well as the Pakistan point of view and it specifically states then it's without prejudice to the position of both sides as far as Trump is concerned yes a lot is said about his unreliability is being a pathological liar etc and of course we need to take his statement however satisfying for Pakistan public opinion with more than a pinch of salt because India has immediately responded and reiterated its traditional position their only problem is and I think miss Anu Rada quite rightly sort of said there is now a linkage between the situation in Afghanistan and the situation in Kashmir and Trump needs a very quick progress towards the settlement in Kashmir in Afghanistan if only because of the impending and elections in 2020 and he needs to have show something that he's able to get out with dignity and leave behind a stable situation and he does believe Pakistan has a critical role to play play in facilitating this and that is why Pakistan has been in a position to sort of stress that Pakistan is more than willing to help because Pakistan is primarily affected by the situation in Afghanistan but Pakistan at the same time is confronted with the situation on its eastern border as a result of the outstanding issue of Jammu and Kashmir that might have prompted Trump to say what he said but he did very specifically say the indian prime minister had himself asked him so if that can't be just you know a slipshod statement it's a deliberate statement if it's a lie it's a deliberate lie and then I've you know I don't know what to make of it but nonetheless the fact of the matter is that in Kashmir you have a situation which is politically beyond the control of Burma of India now it won and over mr. Modi won an overwhelming electoral victory for the second time in a row I'm interrupting you here let me ask you this question if India in a very strange position as well I mean they have an ongoing spat over the purveyors of s400 that is a increasingly a sort of sensitive issue between the US and India and here when Prime Minister Modi's office comes out and says nothing happened like this we have a prime minister but they never reached out and asked if you could be a mediator it's essentially calling President Trump a liar a position they're taking right now really puts them in the crosshairs of what is happening here in South Asia doesn't it yes but Trump it doesn't care about people calling evening him whatever they call him he seems to be a man of the moment he says what comes to his mind and of course so Pakistan shouldn't get over joyed because although he was very specific the fact is that he's been immediately challenged by India but then again as Narada said that there is a situation is very very concerned to get out of understand and there is a linkage between Afghanistan and indian-held Kashmir and within the Indian Health Kashmir although it is true in there can't be militarily challenged but politically they're not able to find anybody in the valley willing to be a chief minister the BJP did not get a single vote with a candidate or say single-seat in the valley now this is a very first time and and he's resorting to threats and you know three seven zero twenty five a and many people think changing the composition of the population sorry I believe miss and you rather a new ratha sorry about that you're trying to say add something here I would say you know in some ways it it seems like there is a possibility of us mediating or at least you know facilitating some kind of a dialogue between India and Pakistan the last time peace was on the table it it was at a time when US was intervening in Afghanistan again so now when they want to pull out I do see a connection there definitely and not much emphasis can be laid on Trump's words be cut his his style of diplomacy is also very different you know the people he usually is trying to engage with he first uses very provocative words and then and then enters into meaningful negotiations but having said that I think the ideal position would have been not to have a third party intervention but to have India and Pakistan to begin the negotiations on their own as mature nations and this I say because you know any third party intervention does not necessarily end up in peace global powers at the end of the day have their own compulsions they have their own interests and that sometimes imposes an extra burden on the region of conflict that they seek to resolve right that that the best course of action should have been for the two countries to act in a more mature manner perhaps the dialogue from where they left earlier the structure was already available and ready to be taken to the next level okay that does not seem to be happening it's not right it's deteriorating I get where you're going with that mr. boo sambal bringing you afraid here we're talking about in ideal situation where both the Indian Pakistan would be able to have a civil and mature conversation is there even a possibility without a third party negotiation for both of them to agree on Kashmir it doesn't seem that it's likely we've seen in the last 70 odd years of how many negotiation is that how many bilateral discussion that they had we're talking again about the Lahore declaration the Shimla agreement but not nothing has moved on since then you have people in the world that are I would say qualified but they have the necessary skills to to be moderators or negotiators or bilateral parties to the negotiation we had at one point in time Desmond Tutu we had in one point of time Nelson Mandela I mean such qualified people such icons no longer exist however there if President Trump is offering his services we've seen as somebody mentioned that you know he's he's a little gun trigger trigger-happy he used the stick first and the carrot we've seen how he's dealt with Kim jong-un or North Korea so there is there is scope we've seen how he's dealt with Iran and then something that could have been resolved very peacefully is quickly spinning out of control bringing in the entire region at risk I'm sorry I'm gonna quickly move we're running out of time mr. Ashraf just wanted comments on this on the sort of stance being taken here generally between India and Pakistan it's a bilateral issue but incidents like what happened in February the suicide attack that killed 14 ioan troops in Indian administrated Kashmir's Pulwama region it prompted an entire tit-for-tat air attacks and we were at the brink of war with India and this kind of overshadowed any kind of progress made in Indian Occupied Kashmir where 7,000 people are more in fact have died over the past 30 years then doesn't this call for a kind of an intervention that will have more of a stay than UN resolutions or UN intervention has in the past yeah you're right there is a inherent difficulty in India Pakistan talks now as India has said they don't want any third party mediation and that this is a bilateral issue and then when Pakistan and India do meet you know in that tends to say that looked Kashmir is an internal situation we would like you to stop your interference and even get out of what they call Pakistan Occupied Kashmir other than that they don't enter into any discussion about how a settlement to the satisfaction of both sides and particularly the Kashmiris themselves could be arrived at only once did this really happen and that happened during the back-channel talks of 2004-2005 and then of course shortly afterwards internal crises took place and then Mumbai happened in 2008 and ever since there's never been any real substantive dialogue so if we do have dialogue if again and that's possible Kashmir will still be a very difficult problem because India has a its own fixed position that this is a part of India including what Pakistan calls Azad Kashmir and aap okay so how do we get out of this now here it is possible for Trump or other international leaders to play a role of course Pakistan needs to be very wary of the word arbitration because if you get a third party to talk about arbitration they may well so say well let's arbitrate and find in favor of the territorial status Co the Pakistan regards to territorial status Co as the problem and and not a solution so it's really got to ultimately find a solution within the context of an improving India Pakistan relationship where there is some trust and in order to kick start that process of course international support and an international regard for the human rights situation in Occupied Kashmir or what we call yhk indian-held Kashmir this is essential for us to make progress okay and miss Annie Racine I and you don't believe in arbitration you don't think it will really resolve anything considering that as you said third parties have their own agendas their interests then what is the way forward considering the way things stand here every time not only does India say that this is part of our country it also takes the excuse on account in Pakistan seriously as long as it doesn't stop state-sponsored terrorism and this again at a time where things are at the edge with the verdict that's come out from the ICJ or on coalition Jaidev look III think it's not that the arbitration will not resolve anything it's all up to India and Pakistan how they utilize the opportunity if there is an opportunity raishin and that is required to get the two to the negotiating table let that be it but the two sides need to move on and use it to their own advantage to the advantage of the people of India and Pakistan and more importantly to the people of Kashmir on both sides of the borders the problem today in Kashmir is it's not just that it is becoming intractable it's becoming difficult to resolve it is also taking a dangerous turn which in turn will be per Ilyas for entire South Asian region for India and for Pakistan and therefore there is a compulsion for both of them to talk the problem today is that there there is a huge trust trust deficit the trust deficit exists between the Kashmiri and the people of India more and in a lesser degree between the people of Kashmir and Pakistan and there are lessons to be learned from the previous peace process which remained where the inclusive is T of Kashmir ease was very very minimal okay and question marks were raised by the people of Kashmir that they were not being included and if you look at the situation in Kashmir today on the Indian side and even on the Pakistani side if you just take a look at the UN report and we've been watching where are things are deteriorating on judiciary it's not looking good there is procedure cut you short here we're running out of mr. humble your take on that what miss machine said that there is a trough to trust deficient between the Christian Metis in the Indian Health Kashmir and the Indian government there is a trust deficient there is also and I'm going to add here a sort of almost denial of an indigenous movement that is constantly growing and taking on the government in resistance of what in your view is then the way forward I think the first thing is we usually use the correct language more often than not what we say is territorial dispute and we talk about bilateral and we talk about third party intervention group with complete disregard to that this is not a territorial dispute there are people living on the ground ten million people and there is an indigenous movement going on if there is going to be third party intervention let's call it actually fourth policy because there are three parties already part of this negotiation and India have never genuinely involved the people of Kashmir in those negotiations although they may consider that this is you know there's this joke going on that in the international ball they say that you know this is a bilateral issue with Pakistan they say there's an internal issue and so ultimately India in itself is not confused but they have different policies with with every with every nation or with every state that they're talking to ultimately the bottom line is until the people of Kashmir are also included on that negotiating table and it doesn't necessarily have to be with India even if POTUS if the presence of the united states with imran khan talks the hurry of conference talk to the leadership of Kashmiri of Kashmir at least then it would be a three-way tie against India to put some kind of pressure on them to alleviate the issues of Kashmir alright thank you so much miss simmons-howe joining us from London a very interesting conversation on it we'll take a the Kashmiri is to be acknowledged also and to be brought to the negotiating table and with that we'll take a quick short break don't go away we'll be right back there is no military solution on Afghanistan there is no military solution because as mr. president says if you go all-out military there will be millions and millions of people who would die so there is only one solution and I feel that I think we will discuss this is the closest we have been to a peace deal and we hope that in the coming days we will be able to urge the Taliban to speak to the Afghan government and come to a settlement a political solution I think Pakistan is going to do a lot I really do I think Pakistan is going to make a big difference I think Pakistan will save millions of lives in Afghanistan because I really believe they can they have a power that other nations don't have with respect to Afghanistan we've done what we were supposed to do we've been there for 19 years and we've acted as policemen not soldiers and again if we wanted to be soldiers it would be over in ten days one week to ten days if we wanted to but I have not just done that why why are we why would we kill millions of people it wouldn't be fair in terms of humanity it wouldn't be fair so we're doing very well and I think that Pakistan is going to be a big help so when he said it wouldn't be fair to kill millions of people although they had he had a plan or window finishing the war in seven to ten days it of course a lot of uproar in the presidential office in Afghanistan and even across the board it was something that the fans of Aniston's presidential office has asked for a clarification over the u.s. statement that Trump's remarks about ending the war in Afghanistan in a week now the statement may I mentioned here comes ahead of us and voice al mahalla Assad's visit to Afghanistan today to further peace talks with the Afghan Taliban so we will be speaking to our guest who is mr. Javed Faisal a former governor a government a spokesperson right now in Kabul and also still from the Sambas studios we have mr. Ashraf Jahangir Kazi I want to come to you first mr. Javed vessel of course a clarification request has been sent from the presidential office in Afghanistan but in your opinion is different like this coming out from President Trump from one of the most powerful countries in the world how does how do you respond to that I don't think statement as such is going to hit the relation between apanasana and the u.s. in between the u.s. in the world this is not the first time US allies are hearing such irresponsible remarks from I used truth it of course raises questions and concerns on whether the u.s. allies should reduce should re-evaluate its relationship with the u.s. because you know things like that are not helping in the same time if we are looking for a solution for peace and fun the tomb that we heard is not going to be the solution or the way forward but there has to be measured words spoken there has to be measured actions taken so we have the expected outcomes of it right now that's not responsible that is very irresponsible that is disrespectful to the partnership and that's disrespectful to the losses the human losses that we had that's 100 that the u.s. had in the world had enough fun fun right but mr. vessel I understand as you said earlier that and this is not you need to or your observation it's across the board analysts critics around the world have said this then what comes out of president Trump's mouth we all are kind of used to how sometimes those statements as volatile as they are should not be taken that seriously but the statement comes ahead of the US and voice al mahalla Assad's wizard to Afghanistan today and to further the peace process with the upon Taliban so do you in your opinion honestly feel that when the presidential office asked for a clarification from the US on what President Trump say it has absolutely no side effects or the statement President Trump gave well like I said differently is impacting the overall counts of friendship with the United States the overall concept of relationships in entirely the United States but as we know in osceola Afghanistan in the u.s. our strategic friends we have signed an agreement of strategic partnership and we have signed an agreement of security partnership with the US which means our relations are defined by those agreements we have been few years ago not by by irresponsible remarks coming out now and and coming out about certain countries not just one country or two countries or one other look to allies about certain other allies but I think our our foundation of relationship to the unit is strong it's built on those parts and those agreements we have signed and we are moving forward in the light of that but of course it's important to have better words to have activities in in statements that can make things work not create additional crises or issues or concerns or abilities in the future okay all right so mr. Cozzi now along with of course the statement that been said which ruffled of course a lot of feathers here there in Afghanistan what he also said was that Pakistan will is going to help us out to extricate ourselves he's talking about true Patrol he mentioned that what a few troops have been withdrawn and he was asked I mean again on the timeline by reporters there but he again mentioned the Pakistan would play a crucial role what is that role in your opinion but first of all I would like to agree with mr. Javed vessel that Trump's remarks even if they were only mentioned in order to be rejected about wiping out of lannister on killing 10 million people i think this is extraordinary language but you've really got to regard him as a 70 year old spoiled brat who has no real psychological maturity and allows himself to say all kinds of things you know which is an abuse of his political office which is you know of their highest office in the world's most important country most powerful country nor but that's now a given people to shrug and wink at it you know but nonetheless it is an insult which people can do without it but from Pakistan's point of view yes we recognize that as far as Afghanistan America is concerned Pakistan's invitation is essentially with regard to Trump's desperate situation in Afghanistan and his belief that he needs to sort of go soft on Pakistan for a while in order to encourage it to do more because even said Pakistan has taken steps back thunders down a lot kudos for Pakistan and we are going to expect even more from Pakistan in order to facilitate a statement now a settlement which means essentially to get the Taliban to agree to certain things which it hasn't yet now that includes sort of talking with Kabul that includes an interim a ceasefire an interim ceasefire all of which have been rejected by the Taliban so far and you know the Taliban are somewhat suspicious of Pakistan in view of what happened after 9/11 and they depend on Pakistan they have depended on Pakistan but they do not trust Pakistan so completely and they will not risk division in their ranks between the leadership and the commanders in the field by going overboard secondly with regard to the timetable for withdrawal the Americans more or less are proposing some kind of a conditional timetable for withdrawal whereas the Taliban now are insisting on a chronological timeframe you know a specific time period within which they will but so how will Pakistan manage to bridge these differences between Kabul and the Taliban is very difficult to in business because unfortunately Pakistan doesn't have ideal relations with either carbon or with the Taliban we might have some leverage with the Taliban which you might not have read Kabul but it's and if partisan doesn't deliver for Trump's elections requirements which are going to take place in 2020 it's quite possible that Taliban that Trump will express his disappointment in a rather you know distasteful manner towards Pakistan once again all right thank you there mr. Ashraf Ghazi joining us Lamba studios thank you for your time and insight on this and also mr. Javed fester for giving us your opinion and with that we're going to take a quick short break we'll be right back the answer is yes I see great trade with Pakistan and I'm not talking about a little bit more I'm talking about we could go 10 and even 20 times what we're doing right now Pakistan is a big country it's actually a very big country and they have tremendous product they make great product they make tremendous I bought from Pakistan over the years when I was in the private sector they make incredible product they're brilliant people they're hardworking people I think we're gonna have a fantastic trade relationship we'll have fantastic trade relations President Trump there during a meeting with Prime Minister Imran Khan on Monday talking about the potential there is not just between the two countries in developing a relationship but also a strengthening economic and trade ties to speak on this we have our guest joining us from Amsterdam professor Steve in an economist or welcome to newswire thank you for taking out the time to speak with us and also hear from Karachi and another economist mr. Nasim big thank you for joining newswire here I want to get to you straight on the issue here at a discussion a professor Steve is that he talks about quadrupling almost I mean he seems to show of course a lot of encouragement words of working on trade ties considering there are a lot of things hanging over both their heads such as coalition support funds and other hang-ups that the two have with each other how do you interpret president Trump's statement on trade unfortunately typical Trump hyperbole he actually said ten or twenty times which would be a dramatic increase in something of the order of you know of three billion to thirty billion that's just not going to happen in a flash so it's a typical Trump hyperbole however I think the fact that he's certainly playing India Roth Pakistan on this to Pakistan's benefit there's certainly room for Pakistan to develop a toehold in some of the industries that India currently dominates to with export to America so again hyperbole but there's a bit of room at the same time he talks about how Pakistan President Trump says it's a big country it's a large country it really sort of makes a lot of us wonder is he sure is he sure he's talking about the same country as Pakistan that we know of and then he says they make great product I bought that product privately I mean all of this understandably as you mentioned a key point is playing off India also but in terms of potential despite the security and the macroeconomic concerns in the region is Pakistan even a lucrative market for the u.s. to invest in not really I mean again he Trump's vision of the planet is less informed than most Americans and that's saying something so I wouldn't I think you think he's not talking about your country you're quite right I think if you want intelligent looking at what your country can do I'd rather look at the atlas of it and I'm a complexity coming out of Harvard and seeing what their guidance is for what Pakistan can actually develop over time so just I just see this is a chance to strengthen their relationship which has been very strained over the last ten to twenty years at a time when your two leaders in one sense are more compatible than you've had in the past and certainly Trump is more compatible with car than Modi so there's some opportunities for Pakistan there but nothing like the marketing that Donald Trump is doing at the moment right okay so mr. Nasim big let's get your traders as Professor Steve King said that this is you know of this is trying to him sort of getting along with Prime Minister on Khan here but in your cheek obviously Oh keeping in mind the kind of export market we have as us a destination how lucrative is this opportunity or is this even going to go any further in trying to establish better tree ties with the US as a first of all I'm not an economist just a financial professional but nevertheless yes our exports to the u.s. three or four billion that region the total export that we have is 22 billion so ten times many times of the 3 billion is just obviously not going to happen in the foreseeable future I would say that if we compare ourselves with Bangladesh a lot of the textile made ups that they export special markets open up to them but then they took a while to develop the infrastructure to be able to do that they've employed a lot of women in that while we in Pakistan struggle with that we haven't fairly developed our ability to do value-added exports so I would say yes it gives us an opportunity to start working towards that as to what it will translate into on the on the assumption that the US Opens out sort of market towards us and makes it easier for to enter that market our own people would really need to get their acts together we currently structured other than a few or few companies that you're probably okay it's professors theorems or what Pakistan has invested in America in the United States and creating jobs and sort of generating revenue the the number is pretty low there it's almost abysmal 300 million dollars do you think that's a correct estimate or it's probably lower and if so what potential does parks not even have in investments in the state's ideal I mean again if you look say for example example as a major export that Pakistan makes to America its a linen and it's almost one-thirty if it's 20 over 1/4 of your exports to to America look at India and it's a trivial component of their overall exports but actually a larger numerical value so on that sense Pakistan is one tenth or one fifteenth the trading partner for the America that that India is so you know you are sore talking starting from an extremely small base I think though it would be you probably get some advantageous deals out of Trump certainly at the moment I think he's enjoying hobnobbing with another celebrity who's a national is a national leader that's not common but I think that by far the best thing Pakistan's and do is take a look at the work of the atlas of economic complexity group at Harvard University and they give a very good idea of what the industries can actually be developed given the current industrial base that Pakistan has in that sense I think it's almost irrelevant what you export to America but it is also a very good opportunity here for Prime Minister Imran Khan or essentially to sort of cultivates a picture or market a plan afford direct investment in Pakistan considering its the low labour cost there the ease of language I mean English is spoken widely and now that the environment is also secure yeah I think definitely the advantage of speaking I mean that's one of the major advantage India has that English is the common language across the the country in this a Pakistan has assumed not as strong but a similar leaning you could certainly take advantage of that I think the most important thing they learned from the Chinese and the way that they took advantage of foreign investment and right from the very first Shenzhen free trade zone and the Chinese required any foreign investor to have a local partner and require that local partner to have believe it or not 50% of the company within five years now I think you can negotiate a term like that but something that makes sure you get ownership of the capital that's brought in and some technology transfer is essential and in that sense I'd follow in China's lead well listen let's see we've got the last minute left I really quickly want to get your thoughts on this in terms of the potential here for both of them to cut the Pakistan some kind of leeway or develop some kind of deal that would encourage trade even if it's a very small amount compared to their neighbors well I feel the trade trade agreement of sorts where the the US opens out its market to us makes it easier for us what's working help Pakistan in the longer term as far as the u.s. is concerned our market has been open throughout all right thank you so much missing the symbol professor Steve Keen for giving us your time it's we've come to the end of the program here we will be seeing you again tomorrow till then goodbye


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