Judder on TVs Explained (Motion 5/5) – Rtings.com

Judder on TVs Explained (Motion 5/5) – Rtings.com


Hi, I’m Cedric from Rtings.com. This is the last video in our series about
motion and the subject is judder on TVs. Judder is an inconsistent time frame. Or in
other words, that some frames stay on the screen longer than the other ones. Here’s
an exaggerated example to illustrate what it is. Judder looks like a jerky movement
that isn’t smooth. It’s important to not confuse this with stutter,
which is simply caused by watching a low frame rate content. Here’s an example of a low frame
rate, but without judder. It might not look smooth, but there is no judder since the time
between each frame is constant. There are 2 main kinds of judder: the 3:2
pulldown judder and frame drops. Let’s first talk about the 3:2 pulldown judder.
That kind of judder happens when you’re watching a 24 frames per second content like a movie,
on a screen that refreshes 60 times per second. 24 doesn’t fit evenly in 60, so the screen
will display every odd frame 3 times, and every even frame 2 times. This 3-2 pattern will create a judder since one out of two frames stays on the screen longer. Here’s
an example on a real TV in slow motion. You can see that half the frames are displayed
for a longer period of time. All phones and tablets have that issue. Even if you are watching
Netflix on your PC you will have that issue, unless you run your monitor at a frame rate
that is a multiple of 24. That kind of judder is subtle so not everyone notice it.
To test whether there is judder, we created this pattern. It’s a 24 frames per second
video where the square is at each position only one frame every second. We then take
a 1 second long exposition picture with the camera. If there is no judder, all squares
will stay on the screen the same time, so the white will be uniform. If there is judder
though, all squares will have alternating brightness.
A lot of TVs are able to pass this test when the signal sent is 24 frames per second, except
a few budget TVs. A test that is harder though is to be able to remove the judder on 24p
content that is sent over 60Hz. For example, this will be the case if you are watching
a movie on an Apple TV. The Apple TV always outputs at 60Hz, even if you are watching a 24p movie. The TV in this case needs to do the reverse
3:2 pulldown. Which is basically detecting the 3:2 pattern on the 60Hz signal and displaying
the original 24 frames instead. This is a lot harder to do, and very few TVs pass
that test perfectly. For example, take this Sony TV. By default,
24p works. But if I change the signal to 60p, you can see judder on our 24p pattern. On
Sony TVs, you will need to set Motionflow to True Cinema and CineMotion to High. This
won’t create the soap opera effect, but it will force the reverse 3:2 pulldown.
The second type of judder is frame drops. Frame drops can be caused by the motion interpolation
feature like we saw in the previous video. If the movement is too fast and the TV doesn’t
know how to interpolate it, it will simply repeat the previous frame another time. This
will cause judder. Frame drops can also be caused by an app that
is too slow. On some older TVs, the native apps are not very fast, so some have problems
keeping up with the streaming video, and some might drop frames from time to time. This
is usually rare though. In conclusion, judder is due to an inconsistent time frame. If it’s constant it’s not called judder but stutter. There are two types of
judder, the 3:2 pulldown and frame drops. Most TVs can get rid of the judder with the
correct settings. You can see the full list of TVs that passes this test on our website.
So that’s it for the motion series. If you liked this video, subscribe to our channel,
and see you next time!

Author:

100 thoughts on “Judder on TVs Explained (Motion 5/5) – Rtings.com”

  • So if a TV has a refresh rate of 120hz (and there are several on the market that do) wouldn't that remove the 3:2 pull down jutter since 120 is a multiple of 24?

  • You guys are the best! I had trouble understanding judder before, you guys made it easy to comprehend; really informative. Keep up the great work, much appreciated!

  • Shubham Khatri says:

    Can you compare new Samsung MU6300 series vs sony X800E,does any of these support 120hz refresh rate? (i will be using tv as pc monitor)

  • judder is when you crank up the motion plus up it rips the picture in half in small skinny things like sticks and 24p content will tear at the tops and bottom with here and there with fast moving things, watch 60 fps content or more for judder free viewing

  • Jayashri Venketasubramanian says:

    I'm watching in a commonwealth country w 50Hz AC current. So do my TVs play at 50p by default? Do TVs get sold in different fps playback in diff parts of the world?

  • What if i watch a 24p movie on my pc to my lg oled55b6v, do i need to change any settings? Im getting some stutter/judder

  • So for direct tv, amazon, and netflix, set imotion flow to True Cinema and Cinemotion to High. How do I set them when I play Blue Rays and DVDS at 24P?

    Update. I tried those settings and their was to much bur. So I set them at Custom and the sliders at 4 or 5 and the lower one at 0 with moviemotion at 4. Works more better for everything.

    I sure would like to know what each setting does. How much anti judder and anti blur is applied with each setting. smooth, clear and so forth. It sound like cinemotion adds frames. What do the sliders do?

  • HOW DO YOU GET RID OF THIS IN GAMES???? I CANT STAND THIS JUDDER ON MY SONY X900E WHEN PANING THE CAMERA AROUND!! PLS HELP

  • I live in England & we use PAL 50hz. If I buy a Sony XE90 (X900E) it's 100hz.

    Will I still get judder when watching 24p content with a blu-ray player?

    If the TV was 120hz like it would be in the US, I know there wouldn't really be much of a problem, since 24 goes into 120, five times, so the TV will show each frame 5 times.

    This, however, looks like it is not possible for a 100hz TV, since 24 doesn't go into 100 evenly.

    Will the 24p content be speeded up to 25fps in order to go into 100?

    I'm really confused by this & wondering if I would be wasting my money on the XE90 – if it still displays judder of 24p content.

  • I’m having an easier time understanding judder now. Thanks. I still don’t really understand the soap opera effect. That video was too technical for me.

  • It's a good thing the xbox one can discover all hz options on any TV that can plug into the console. Most CRTs can't play xbox one. You can activate any hz option through the console, doing all the work so the TV can relax.

  • Why do you pronounce words so long?? Jud derrrrr, examplllllllle, thooooough, serieeees….wtf, learn better English and lose that weird ass accent.

  • So, how do you fix judder on tv? Will black frame insertion (clearness on my Sony tv) help? I have Sony X930E by the way.

  • I need help with motionflow and cinemotion setting on x850e. Should i Have true cinema and cinemotion high on all video content for best experience? It will work only with 24p movies but can I have it like that all the time or it will ruin some content? My current setting is both motion flow and cinemotion off

  • Alex Constantin says:

    Hi Guys, i bought a 55Q6F tv and i think i have some big judder with it. Does anyone know what settings should i use to make it goo smoother? i haven't found nowhere a professional review of this product. I thought it would be somewhere between MU8000 and Q7F, but it's a big pullback the judder effect, otherwise the picture looks really nice

  • Such a great video, nice job guys! Pretty sad that most of the comments are about pronunciation (I will not lie, it sounds funny, but such comments seem ungrateful).

  • Wow the comment section… let's see half the smartarse wankers in here create an informative video in their second language.
    Great video and well explained.

  • First of all, thank you for this video series!! It has been amazing viewing so far…

    questions that should be answered here –

    Can I get perfect cadence for 24p films from Netflix?

    Can I do it on a 60Hz tv or only a 120Hz tv?

    If I'm watching a movie on tv, can i get 24p properly?

    And I'd still love to see the inherent judder with OLED compared to LED/LCD if possible.

  • This discussion is very interesting and I would like to know if you did any tests even with content at 23.976 fps. The test file video you're talking about is 24p but most of the content is on blu-ray not 24p but 23.976 fps. As well as streaming content where the refresh rate is often blocked at 60p. How do sony TVs behave for Europe?

  • The old-school "experts" need to stop perpetuating 24fps "Cinematic look" because 30/60fps monitors simply stop and wait for the next frame to come along 6 times per second, it's just simple math. Juddery playback does not look "Cinematic" at all.💥

  • Is judder still an issue with the Apple TV 4K if you set it to output the original source format? If so, what settings do you recommend on the ATV and LG 2017 OLEDs?

  • I would have sworn that to a native English speaker stutter would signify irregular motion and judder would be regular but jumpy/staccato motion, not the other way around…but since I'm not a native speaker…

  • @lecorsaire Again, Juddery playback does not look "Cinematic" at all.

    Film is better than digital is an obsolete naive myth. Most current day movies are shot and edited on digital equipment and played back on digital TVs and Monitors. And, "Film" is converted to digital for editing, color grading, and distribution.

    Regarding Dynamic-range: "A release by Kodak showcased that most Film has around 13 stops of dynamic range. Today's modern digital cameras average around 14 stops of dynamic range, with high-end units such as the Nikon D810 reaching almost 15 stops." (petapixel) And large Billboard type photos use 6-8k digital systems as 35mm film is only around 4k resolution max.

    Perhaps you have a "Crap" cellphone camera? My 2yr old Galaxy S7 produces far better photos than my old Minolta SRT 100X 35mm SLR Film Camera ever did. When is the last time you recall seeing a retail "Film" processing outlet? And, when is the last time you went to see a movie in a movie theater that used reels of celluloid film played back through a (museum piece) standard carbon arc film projector?

    The age of film has long passed. 24fps movies are all converted to 30/60fps by the major streaming services like Netflix, Amazon, et al using a 3:2 pulldown system, where while not perfect, films will play with less apparent judder on modern TVs and Monitors. When you watch streamed movies, they are at 30fps, not 24fps

    Search YouTube for "8K60P" and providing your monitor is not fixed to 24fps, let me know if the 60fps videos you saw are not "Cinematic." There is so much more on this topic if you care to use Google. And, while searching Google, also search for "which cameras were used on the oscar nominated films" and you'll find most were shot on Digital Cameras and those using film were converted to digital format for editing, color grading, and distribution. 😉

  • Can anyone explain how a tv that’s over 1000 dollars has judder that’s worse than my 2012 tv that’s edge lit. Ive been through the settings and it sucks no matter what.

  • Hehe that's nice to hear a French Canadian accent on a high quality informative video. I noticed it right away and trust me, he speaks english EXTREMELY GOOD and way better than the average person from here, including myself haha.

  • Cool explanation of motion judder👍. Helped me adjust my Sony and Samsung tvs to look more natural and smooth without too much artificial insertion to the picture!!

  • What about 25 FPS (50hz) content like what the Britts use? On my q6fn I can only eliminate the judder by setting the Apple TV to match framerate so that my tv is set to 50 hz.

  • More reason to move away from 24hz content and onto 30hz or 60hz content… Most consumption is streamed with devices that operate at 60hz.

  • A great explanation on why 24p judder exists. Most people don't notice it, but it is hard to test yourself if you do… To help with that, I have created a set of panning shots, each processed slightly different.

    This is a typical judder when 2-3 pulldown is applied: https://youtu.be/w98CjESkbLE
    This is a simple way to remove judder, but not introduce Soap Opera Effect: https://youtu.be/zaTPaxEWs9k

    There are a few more videos – native 24p, 60p and 30p for comparison as well.

    Test yourself if you see the difference. But be careful – once you discover how judder looks like, you might need a new TV 😀

  • no screen tearing, however more annoying this is stuttering/juddering dunno howi to call it and I can;t fix it tho i checked a lot of forums and sites. I have 144hz and g-sync and videos are terrible to watch because of this.

  • Judder is a super important factor when it comes to image quality but most people gives more importance to some other much more relative aspects like 4K, HDR… and its surprising how in 2019 a lot of TVs still not capable to handle the 24 frames fluidly… that's really noticeable to every people even if they are not really aware of it; the same image with or without judder has a noticeable difference; i would like to get to know easily which TVs are capable to really dejudder without having to personaly test them, isnt there a clear reliable technical specification to know this ? thanks for the video, this is really useful information after watching some other videos where, for example, nobody is really capable to explain what really HDR is or does…

  • This has been an excellent series. Great information and fantastic presentation. There is so much more to motion as presented on a television than I originally though. Thank you!

  • My eyes just don’t see judder. Even side by side I have trouble seeing it. I don’t think my tv has juddering issues, but I also have no way of knowing since I can’t tell 🤷🏻‍♂️

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