Episode 89 Swedenborg expert Curtis Childs on We Don’t Die Radio Show

Episode 89 Swedenborg expert Curtis Childs on We Don’t Die Radio Show

Sandra: Welcome to another episode of We Don’t
Die, where my goal is to give you evidence that, although our bodies will disappear,
we survive physical death. I’m your host, Sandra Champlain, author of
the international, best-selling book called “We Don’t Die: A Skeptic’s Discovery of Life
After Death”. Today on our show, we have Curtis Childs. I found Curtis’ YouTube channel, which is
called “Off The Left Eye,” late one night when I couldn’t sleep. I was searching for videos on life after death,
and I have to tell you, I was absolutely amazed and stayed up all night watching cool video
after cool video of Curtis relating different topics with an 18th Century philosopher named
Emanuel Swedenborg. Curtis is the creator, producer and host of
his weekly Monday night, 8PM EST webcast that’s called “Swedenborg and Life” that airs to
over 29,000 subscribers and some of his videos you can find on YouTube have reached over
300,000 views. When I tell you they’re great, they are really
great. For all of us modern-day, spiritual growth
seekers, this is an awesome show for us. Topics Curtis covers are the afterlife, angels
and spirits, near-death experiences, god, spirituality, and more. And he does a great job balancing these faith-based
topics with evidence-based research from subject experts. And you can learn more about Curtis Childs
on his YouTube channel, which is “Off The Left Eye,” or you can go to swedenborg.com
and he’s also episode 89 on wedontdieradio.com. So that might be the easiest way to take a
look at this wonderful fellow we’re talking to. So, Curtis Childs, thanks for being our guest
today on We Don’t Die Radio. Curtis: Thanks so much for having me. Sandra: I spoke to you a couple minutes before
we started recording, and like a little kid at Christmas, you are a rock-star to me and
I’m so excited I get to talk to you and open the present. You are a gift, my friend. Curtis: Thank you. Appreciate it. I’m just happy anybody wants to talk about
anything Swedenborg related, because I was saying to you before, a little while ago I
couldn’t find anyone who wanted to, so it’s been so much fun getting these concepts out
here and having things happens like what you described. You came across the material, it was interesting,
positive enough that you wanted to keep watching. So, stories like that have made the last couple
years while we’ve been doing this show a really awesome part of my life. So I’m just happy to talk about it with anyone. Sandra: Yeah, and I’m happy to share. And to find out about you — because for our
listener right now, Curtis, I don’t know how old you are but in my eyes, everyone’s younger
than me. Right? Curtis: Yeah, I’m 31. Sandra: Yeah, so young, fresh-faced, talking
in modern times things about an 18th Century man, but so many of the principles hold true
right now in 2016. And there’s so many really neat graphics,
and the technology you use — however you do your show, it is so engaging and it’s so
awesome to watch and just to reflect everything you discuss, even with your guests, as to
how it relates to my life now. It’s fascinating, so if I could have you tell
a little bit about who you are, and maybe your journey that actually had you get involved
with Swedenborg and the foundation and why you’re giving back so much in the way you
are. Curtis: Yeah, absolutely. I began what I would call my serious spiritual
seeker phase probably around 18 or 19 years old. I actually was part of a select group of people,
a small group of people that was actually familiar with Swedenborg’s writings. My parents both read Swedenborg, I knew people
who did — but, that’s a very, very small compared to the rest of the human race. So I already kind of had it in my background,
but you know, there were other people I knew who also knew of Swedenborg but didn’t gravitate
to it the way that I did. I really started to make it my own around
that time, as I was saying. And I think my spiritual journey started the
way many other peoples do, which is through some kind of disruption in life. I was going along — it’s not like my life
was perfect, but I was doing alright. But 18, 19 things started to get weird. I think this actually happens to a lot of
people around that age, but I started to get what was later diagnosed as depression. I was very obsessive-compulsive, where I had
to perform certain actions or re-do things or re-say things because if I didn’t, there
was danger to me, or to something I cared about. Or just ambient sense of danger — it’s sort
of hard to communicate it to someone who hasn’t experienced that, because that might sound
ridiculous. But when you’ve been through it, it’s no fun. So I was going through that, I was getting
this torrent of negative thoughts and feelings all the time, all of these confusing inputs
in my mind. I didn’t quite — what’s going on? I didn’t know, I just sort of knew things
were falling apart. I had to go into a process there — initially,
I was just learning about the link between the physical and the mental, meaning like
you have to have good nutrition, you have to be hydrated, you’ve got to exercise…
but that sort of got me looking at different things. I got seriously into near-death experiences
then. That’s when I read Raymond Moody, Howard Storm
— sort of all the classics. And I really liked what I found there, because
it describes what I would call like a period of — or the potential of total healing that
all the details of your life can be known but in a positive way, that there can be this
kind of love that makes everything okay. That was attractive to me at the time. Sandra: Yeah. Curtis: So, I was finding that and towards
the tail-end of this, I really started to read Swedenborg again. I put him down for a little while, actually,
because when I was in that kind of hyped, almost neurotic place, Swedenborg was actually
— he kind of gave me something else to worry about, you know? So I put him down for a little while, but
I came back after having taken these other journeys, and just really started to see him
in a new light. It began to be a living thing to me, the stuff
that I was reading was a relatively dry, 18th Century stuff… was absolutely potent for
me. This was talking about my own mind and was
talking about how life works and it became the most powerful tool that I ever found for
making progress in my life and in my own mind. So that gripped me, and from then on — if
you go through something, you automatically gain some kind of empathy for other people
who might be going through something. You know? Sandra: Yes. Curtis: Yep, and even any suffering… you
just understand, wow. Suffering is no fun. Sandra: No. Curtis: I don’t want anyone else to — so
I had this sense of being broken down to the level I had. It might not sound bad how I was describing
it, but it was really bad. After going through that, though, I felt like
I want to learn how to fix life. People shouldn’t have to go through stuff
like this. Swedenborg seemed like he had the most potent
answers, so I began working more and more towards I’m going to share this with people. I’m going to pass on what was helpful to me. That’s the story of how I first became seriously
interested in reading Swedenborg and communicating what he wrote. Sandra: And did his writings help lift you
out of where you were? I’m assuming they did. Curtis: I would say so. It’s really hard to gauge things like that,
because I’m starting to reach now 11 years back in my memory to figure out that time. I would say that it’s not like he lifted me
out — he gave me some steps. I think part of it is just getting older. That’s a rough time, 20 years old is a rough
time mentally. And it sort of feels like the tide went out,
but it’s not like it’s gone now. I still struggle with things — actually,
that’s probably why I’ve maintained such a constant interest in Swedenborg. Because every day — I mean some days are
fine, but other days I’m getting bombarded by internal storms of different kinds and
I continually find him getting me out in little ways. You know, like I’ll be in a negative mood
— I can come across some of his principles and that changes it almost instantly. So, yeah. In little ways all the time, his material
is most effectively getting me out of that stuff. Sandra: You know what’s neat just hearing
you say that… that late night I was searching randomly on YouTube and found you. Your videos, talking about Swedenborg, brought
me out of where I was and I’ve got a big-screen TV in my living room and I just figured out
how to tie-in YouTube to it. So then, another night I found a video you
have about negative thoughts, and it’s like… you’re doing for us, for your viewers, what
Swedenborg’s material is doing for you. So, you know, a lot of us deal with some negative
things and when we turn it into giving back, it really not only makes a difference in our
life but it makes a difference in others. I’m not going to call you a modern day Swedenborg,
because I don’t know enough about you or him, but I want to tell you that there’s a reason
your videos have so many followers. You really do lift people and also give us
something great to think about and give us tools for empowering us to live a great life
now. Curtis: Thank you, and that’s the point. That’s the reason this excites me, you know,
the Swedenborg itself, the books — those are cool, but what keeps me electrified about
it is the idea of somebody finding it and getting lifted up from that, experiencing
that and then hopefully I can connect them into the source material that will continue
to bring them positive things. It’s all about — and this is my way to try
and end suffering. It does make it so that whenever I’m going
through something negative, I have an immediate outlet to turn that into a positive. If I’m struggling with something, I can figure
out how to apply techniques and then okay, how do I make a video out of that? So it’s really nice for me to have that direct
pipeline, it makes things a lot easier for me in my own dealing with things. Sandra: And you have a lot of videos. I haven’t even begun to get that deep into
them, and I’ve watched a lot. It’s like, oh my gosh and they’re so great. They’re so great. Could you tell us a bit about who Swedenborg
was? And why you’re so fascinated — and again,
the title of our show is We Don’t Die and I know he’s got some life after death stuff
in there, so if you want to include anything about that, feel free. Curtis: You can’t escape life after death
if you’re going to start reading Swedenborg, that was his claim to fame. His most popular book was named “Heaven and
Hell,” which is a tour of the afterlife, if you will. And he — that was actually the book he wrote
to try and get people interested in his other books, as he goes into all this complex background
information about everything that people were really willing to slog through, and everyone
was asking him about. “Tell me about the afterlife,” so he wrote
that book to get people interested. And as far as who Swedenborg is — if he hadn’t
started writing these books about his experiences with life after death and everything else,
we would all know who he was. He was a scientific genius. He was at the head of many fields of science,
he was kind of the leading man in Sweden who was a world power at the time. He was figuring out how anatomy worked, he
was figuring out how to make mining more effective. He wrote this thing called the “Principia”
which covered all the major topics of his day. He did metallurgy, he did everything. He was a Renaissance man, just slightly before
the Renaissance. But he was on a path — I think you’d learn
about him in history. He might not be as influential as Newton,
but you’d have it there. Sandra: Right, yep. Curtis: However, when he was in his mid-50’s,
he was looking for the seat of the soul. He was studying anatomy, and back then it
was widely believed that there was a soul. Now it sort of is, but there’s this schism
between science and spirituality — but he was thinking he would be able to find a soul
if he looked into an atom, if he studied the brain enough. But he wasn’t finding it, and his quest was
sort of pulling him there and he was kind of going to a dead-end. Where can I find this thing? His dreams at this point became to get more
vivid, and he catalogs this into what could be the first instances of dreaming analysis
recorded. He has this thing published now that is a
journal of dreams, where he not only wrote his dreams but sort of psychoanalyzed them. And this was before there was such a thing
— this was before Freud or anything like that, but he’d write the dream and what he
thought they meant. As he did that, they became more vivid and
more lucid and eventually spilled over into this waking spiritual outer-body experiences,
which we would now call near-death experiences, or out-of-body experiences, or spiritually
transformative experiences. It became something more than a dream, and
you can see him make this progression. He had a complete change of direction in his
life, the spiritual experiences became the primary thing he wrote about all the way up
until his death. He did sprinkle in a few more scientific things
here and there, but the main thrust of everything was that he had a mission he had been given,
he felt, to write this stuff down, give people this information and he felt — looking back
retrospectively, he said that his entire scientific career had been preparing him for this, so
that he could go into the afterlife, the nature of god, the nature of the soul with the mind
of a scientist so he could meticulously document it. He was basically able to have near-death experiences
at will for 30 years, continuously. Sandra: Oh my gosh. Curtis: Yeah, he would lucidly get in contact
with the spirit world. Even if he was getting his coffee and writing
in the morning, he would hear what spirits around him were saying. He could travel in the spirit to see all the
different realms of the afterlife. He could meditate on things — so he was constantly
plugged into that. He could be at a party with people in this
Earth, but at the same time be aware of what the spirits around him thought of that party. So it was plugged into that degree, and that’s
one of the things that make him remarkable. He was so connected and so lucid, he could
say, “I want to go see this thing,” and he could go see it. He had it continuously for three decades or
more, and he wrote 27 volumes about it. This could be the most documentation about
spiritual experiences that any one person has ever had. And not only that — it’s sort of like, like
imagine you visited the United States from a foreign country and you went there and showed
yourself around. That’s one level of experiencing, but imagine
instead if you were some special envoy and the U.S. Government, all the major institutions, corporations
gave you backstage passes to see how their operation worked, you got the total tour of
everything from the people who knew. That’s sort of what he got from the afterlife,
because he was given all this access to not just — I saw this building and there were
people in it, but he learned sort of the laws governing the spiritual world. He got to visit these groups of people, these
groups of spirits that were hard to get to. He had this incredible access, he said, because
then he could relay this stuff so it could become common knowledge with all of us who
can read his books. Sandra: That is so cool. Curtis: Yeah I know, it is. Sandra: Because he lived in the 1700’s, right? Curtis: He lived — yeah, yeah. Born in the late 1600’s, died in the 1700’s. As you said, a lot of the stuff that he wrote
was way ahead of his time in that it feels current now. It feels like it lines very much up with modern
spiritual or near-death experiences. At the time, it was so out there that he was
put on trial for heresy and almost kicked out of his country, all this kind of stuff,
because he was saying these things that you didn’t say back in theocratic, Christian Europe. But a lot of things now that he was saying
back then, like all paths can lead you to Heaven — a lot of people say that now, but
not so many back then. But he was (inaudible) in that way. Sandra: Really great stuff. Are there some of his principles that you
want to share with us, that are at your core beliefs as to what it’s all about, what life
is all about or what Heaven’s all about? I don’t even know what question to ask, really. Curtis: Sure. The first thing I would say is don’t believe
everything you think. Sandra: That’s good. Curtis: That’s not necessarily about what
Heaven is like, but that’s about in between us and Heaven. Sandra: Okay. Curtis: Meaning… one of the things that
he learned is, we are always being influenced by the other side. He talks about the spiritual world — some
people think about it like it’s some sort of ethereal thing that’s far away. He compares it to a bird flying off way into
the air that you can kind of see. Okay, there’s a spiritual world that’s out
there. He says, no. Actually, the spiritual world is like a beautiful
bird of paradise that’s flying so close to your face that the tips of it’s feathers on
it’s wings are touching your eyelash. It’s so close to you, it’s always interacting
and he says that we are in a continuum with the afterlife. Our thoughts and feelings are being influenced
by the greater whole of humanity. Just like you can see influence going through
people — just go on your Facebook feed and look for someone who’s saying something political,
right now. Sandra: Right. Curtis: If it’s something you don’t like,
chances are you’re going to say, “Oh, well they just heard that on Channel X and that’s
why they’re saying that.” We acknowledge that people are influenced
by things, and Swedenborg says that we get an influence in the mind in the same way. To me, hearing that after having just dealt
with this deluge of negative thoughts and feelings for so long… oh, that makes sense. That this — I don’t have to believe in this
stuff just because I hear it in my mind, you know? That sort of critical thinking about it — to
me, that’s been the concept that I’ve been most able to use. That’s just giving you a very simplified version
of it, but the other things — the Heaven he talks about is a state of mind, and really,
that gives me a compass to sort of gauge where do I want to go? We sit here, we have life, what am I trying
to accomplish? What am I trying to do? You know, how do I play tihs game? What are the rules? Are you trying to win? What is life? And he gives you this picture of the heavenly
mindset, which is — probably people have heard parts of it from other traditions, but
essentially it’s loving… oh, it’s what we talked about in the beginning of the show. It’s loving, doing useful things for other
people. So for example, if you had your spiritual
experience and you wrote that book that you wrote to try and get other people to learn
that hey, we’re not going to just blank out at the end of our life. There is something there, you’re turning something
into something that helps people. And the joy you feel in that, and the joy
I feel when I think about somebody finding my videos and it lifting up their life, that’s
Heaven. That is the mindset of Heaven. The joy in serving some kind of use for another
person. Sandra: Right. Curtis: That’s Heaven. That joy is going to last. The joy — so, if I’m doing my channel. You said that I had 29,000 subscribers. If I’m sitting there and I’m excited like,
look at how many subscribers I have. That makes me so cool. That’s not a sustainable joy. Sandra: Right. Curtis: That’s not creating Heaven inside
of me, right? Because that’s just really seeing myself in
that. But what that number, that 29,000 represents
is a bunch of people who hopefully are having a positive impact in their life. The thing I should be excited about is happiness
in those people, and answers and relief. The kind of relief that I got happening for
them — that’s Heaven. It just lets me know, great. That’s what I can cultivate, that’s what I
can work towards. Not that I shouldn’t ever feel good about
myself for doing a good job on things, but don’t have that be your primary goal in life. The primary goal is help the human race. Sandra: Yes, and no matter what way any of
us find to do that, it is one of the most rewarding feelings. I think Zig Ziglar has a quote that says,
“The way,” I don’t even know what it is. I can’t even think of what it is. You know what I’m talking about? Make a difference for enough people, help
them have their dreams come true and you’ll have your dreams come true. It’s something like that. Curtis: No, that was just how it needed to
be. Sandra: You’re wonderful. Curtis: And if you think about, think about
that though as a compass, because if I’m just sitting here and I don’t know — that’s the
best Curtis Curtis can be, serving people in the way that I can. If I didn’t know that, you can easily get
buffeted around inside your mind and inside your feelings. Oh, do I need to be more successful here? Do I need to be expressing myself more here? Do I need — is there something… it creates
this nervousness about what do I need to do to validate myself. But, if you just know, the point is serve
others in that way. To me, it’s relaxing. Okay, that’s the direction. Not that it lays out every step of that, but
it gives me a path. So that’s just one concept — there are so
many others in Swedenborg. His picture of god is just beautiful, and
it’s large and complex but very simple. Love to the whole human race that god has,
love to the whole human race that we can — like, when I’m going to help people, that’s really
that divine love coming through. The more that each of us individually tap
into that, the more that we all act together in concert. He has this idea — have you ever heard of,
did you ever see an episode on the grand human? Sandra: No. Curtis: So, this is a concept that he has
— he talked about that in the afterlife, the state or place he calls Heaven, which
Heaven is just made up of people who are more and more having this state of mind of love
towards the human race. He says that you actually — we’re both wearing
the shape of Heaven, meaning the human body is this perfect model of cooperation, interdependence
and mutual love. If you think about all the different parts
of the body, they get everything they need from the whole and they give everything they
have to the whole. You think that it’s true on the larger levels
— let’s talk about your heart. It is pumping blood out to the whole body,
but it’s also receiving protection from the rib-cage, oxygen from the lungs, the immune
system protects it. It is being loved, and it is loving. And you see this even down to the cellular
level. You have individual cells that are working
to make proteins, they are dependent on the red blood cells bringing them oxygen. He says that the human body is actually the
perfect image of the way that the entire human race can work together. And like you were saying, you find out in
whatever way you can help, you know. There are all these different specialized
parts — the teeth do something that the liver can’t do. The eyeball does something that the ear can’t
do. To each of us, he actually says that in Heaven,
you go to — it’s not like Heaven is in the shape of a person, but people who an ability
to understand things, an ability to learn, they’re kind of like the eyes of humanity. So you go and you’re a community gathering
information for the rest of humanity. He talks about this community that is interdependent
and loving as the human body. From physical things, we can see pictures
of spiritual things. I know that your tagline for the show, or
has to do with finding evidence for life after death. And with Swedenborg, he shows how the entire
physical world is showing you what these deeper realities are like. You just have to know how to speak the language,
and the example of the human body is one out of many, many, many examples. Sandra: Yeah, many people have said things
like talking about Heaven on Earth. Right in the beginning when you talked about
not listening to your own thoughts — I thought of a good example I tell people in my book. Lots of times, we are very… negative towards
ourselves, even getting on this show. I’ve seen your show, and it’s like, oh my
god. He’s a rock-star. This guy’s going to be talking to me, who
am I? I’m a nobody and it’s so easy to go down that
tunnel of like negativity and I’m a nobody and all this stuff. And so, one fun thing I have people do from
time-to-time is to list on a piece of paper all the thoughts you have about yourself. Okay, not good enough, not pretty. Not smart — and then, if you were to ask
maybe the five people closest to you how they would describe you, or just ask them. You know, and you’ll get these things like
you’re so generous, you’re so funny, you’re so smart. The joke is that what they say about you is
the truth, not what we say about ourselves. Curtis: Exactly. Sandra: It’s really how people see us as. So, I think it’s brilliant. Curtis: Isn’t that an interesting phenomenon
that we’re all mean to ourselves? Sandra: Yeah. Curtis: Like, wait a minute. That doesn’t make any sense. I did a video that was called “Head Bullies.” Because if you took that list you were talking
about — if you had a person who was saying those things to you, that would be a restraining
order. Sandra: That would be a restraining order. That’s funny. Curtis: We do not allow that. If I was saying that to somebody, they should
be exiting me from their life as fast as possible. You know? However, when we say it to ourselves, it must
be true because I’m saying it. No. Treat those voices in the same way that you’d
really treat a bully, which means — if somebody’s bullying you, you don’t want to say. I’m going to listen, I’m going to take your
advice to heart on everything you say. You know that all they’re trying to do is
get at you, for the same reason that bully’s bully. It’s for power and it doesn’t have your own
interest in mind. So in that same way, yeah. I take everything, all that negative stuff
I get, I say, well you’re not a trustworthy source on this stuff. Like you’re talking about, get other people
talking to you. That’s a great technique. Sandra: And that untrustworthy source, we
also buy into that life after death can’t be real, and this is all there is. Meanwhile, if we can stop and we can look
at like Internet technology, or our cellphones picking up things from god knows where that
cloud is. You know? Or even looking at planet Earth and thinking,
you know, millions of years ago it was just this rock and now out of it, we have houses
and books, and computers and technology. Like we’re actually living in a miracle, but
our minds can say no, we’re not. Curtis: They can shrink it down so incredibly
to — like you have this amazing world, this amazing technology, amazing people but your
life can just be reduced to I can’t believe that person said that about me. Sandra: Oh exactly. Curtis: You know, that’s what it comes down
to. I remember seeing this exhibit on the human
body and just being floored by the amazing amount of complexity and beauty in it. But yet, you could see somebody going, “That
guy looks funny.” And like that’s your whole assessment. But if you understood the processes, that’s
the most amazing thing you could look at. You know? It’s funny how we can just sort of debase
the thing, but really, there’s all this behind it and it’s cool you mentioned Internet technology,
cellphone technology. We did a show called “How the Spiritual World
is Like the Internet.” This is an expansion — when I was in college,
I did an independent writing study. I was writing articles to get published, and
I got one published but I still had part of the semester left, so I decided I was going
to write a paper about Swedenborg. This was before I was doing Swedenborg stuff
for a living, but I was quite interested in him. One section of that was cataloging the similarities
between the spiritual world that Swedenborg describes and the Internet as we find it now,
which was obviously — there was nothing comparable to that on the planet in the 1700’s, but he
talks about, you know, time and space being obsolete in the spiritual world. Thinking of anyone, you can immediately be
present with them. There’s no distance issue there, and with
time, there’s not really time. There are just states of mind. Here we are, you and I are far, far away from
each other but we’re talking to each other, over the Internet like we’re face-to-face. And we’re recording this show, but you know,
anybody from now on can listen to it as if it was happening in the present moment. So you sort of have the physical world starting
to resemble the spiritual world. It goes into bigger detail than that — Swedenborg
says that in the spiritual world you can know what somebody is like just on approaching
them. It’s like more of an honest world, you know? And, you know, it’s not a perfect system but
with the web — if I get a call on my phone that I don’t recognize, I can immediately
look up that number and see, oh other people are saying it’s spam, don’t answer this. Sandra: That’s true, yeah. Curtis: With a person, you can try and look
at their Facebook profile, like learn about them before you — instantly. And also, people gather in their own communities. You hav�����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������e
all these neat sort of web communities that are based around really specific interests,
but people gather and talk about those. Even my YouTube channel, there are people
who are interested in a particular take on spirituality that Swedenborg offers, we can
all gather there and Swedenborg says that communities in the spirit world are by interest. It’s what pulls you together. So, I just see that the more technology evolves,
the more it begins to resemble this thing he was describing, seeing a couple of centuries
ago. There again, the physical world is starting
to reflect the spiritual world more and more. Sandra: Wow. I just got this visual of driving down the
road — and without your show, you’re in the back seat. Someone else is doing the driving, and they’re
going where ever they want to go and are telling you stories you probably don’t want to hear
and are being the bully and all that stuff. What you provide, Curtis, and the Swedenborg
Foundation is that you get to be in the driver’s seat and just be like, no. This is where I’m going to go and this is
what I want to find out about it. It’s just such a wonderful way to grow spiritually. I turn 50 next week, which it’s like how can
I be 50 already? Curtis: Yeah. Grats. Sandra: Thank you. But I’ve done a lot, but you know, I think
as human beings, over the course of our lives we learn, we grow, we learn, we grow… it’s
this gradual growth thing, but getting into the driver’s seat, watching and learning and
what you provide for people. I think you can have a rapid growth spurt
into another quality of life that was previously unimaginable. Curtis: Yes, it’s cool to hear you say that
because that’s what I’m hoping. And that’s what Swedenborg has provided me,
for sure. Not only does it put you in the driver’s seat,
but it tells me what roads are good to drive on and where the destination is. If I don’t have a clear sense of where to
go, it’s hard for me get in there and drive. But that’s a very good metaphor, that it does
make me feel like rather than being driven everywhere by the thoughts and the mind, I
can then say, well, I know what’s actually going on so if you’re saying something counter
to that, I know I don’t have to listen to you. That has been such a phenomenal tool for me. Yeah, in growth and in life. Sandra: Yeah. And one of the biggest things I hear from
people, even some older people is all the regrets they’ve had and the opportunities
they didn’t take and to have that — I mean, wouldn’t it be great in those final moments
in this life to just like look back and go, wow. I played full out in that, you know? Always things we could’ve done a little differently,
but just I really, really went for it. You know? Can I ask you Curtis — is Swedenborg talking
about maybe our deceased loved ones? Is there any talk about seeing them again,
or do we have angels, do we have guides? Does he speak of any sort of that thing? Curtis: Yes. He absolutely does. He gives descriptions — not as vivid, in
modern near-death experiences, you’ll get more vivid descriptions of reuniting with
relatives. But I think that he’s had so much he was covering
— he does say, in the spiritual world seeing families reunited, seeing siblings, spouses,
you know, parents and children. People being overjoyed meeting each other
again that he would even have people that he knew while they were alive and then they
died, and he’d get to converse with them in spirit after that. Sandra: That’s good enough for me. Curtis: Yeah. I mean, there’s anecdotes but well documented
about, you know, people who began to catch wind that he could see the spiritual world,
so they wanted to test it. “Tell me something that my brother who died
would know, that nobody else did.” As the story goes, he was called into the
court of this queen, and he told her this thing that nobody else could’ve known. You can look at his Wikipedia page, it’s on
there. So, he had these sorts of connections so there
are those, but — angels, yes always. There’s actually always at least two angels
with every person. And he actually goes into it. There are two angels because one is associated
with your thoughts, and one is associated with your feelings. Because there are sort of two primary faculties
in a human being, what he calls the understanding and the will. That can be also called intellect or volition
or discernment. That neatly breaks down into thoughts and
feelings — it’s sort of your purpose and how you get there. And he says that you have an angel with each
part of you and through this angel is sort of your connection to Heaven. You can actually be — as he describes it,
it’s complex. There are those two which are like permanently
with you and sort of allow you to live, because they’re a channel for this life into you. But then there’s also like — he says that
our spirit, he talks about communities in the afterlife but he says our spirit are in
communities right now in the afterlife. We have a spirit right now, we’re in a community
and our community throughout the course of our life changes based on what we love, what
we’re turning our attention towards and focusing on. We change spiritual locations as we grow to
have different interests and progress spiritually. We go up into these different heavenly communities. He gives the interesting anecdote that if
you’re deep enough in meditation or something like that, you actually become visible in
your spiritual community. The spirits there can see you, and who’s that? You know… Swedenborg is full of little fascinating anecdotes
like that. But what I’m saying is that — you could be
surrounded by plenty of angels who are working with you and protecting you in addition to
your two buddies. (Laughter) So, there’s this level of intimacy with Heaven
that I’ve rarely ever heard of with angels actually being able to know the details of
the origins of our thoughts and our feelings… all these elements in our thoughts and feelings
that we aren’t even aware of. They’re gently trying to bend those towards
good. They never force us to do something we’re
not willing to do, but they’re always pulling for us. Swedenborg says that an angel would gladly
trade places with anyone if it meant they could come up and experience Heaven. So when we talk about the joy of helping other
people, Heaven consists entirely of that. So angels, people that are in Heaven, their
greatest joy is helping and that includes helping us. So, as Swedenborg talks about, we have angels
who protects them while they’re sleeping and introduce good dreams. They’re so excited to do that there’s a friendly
competition between them. “No, I want to do it. I want to do it.” Because I want this person to be happy. So there’s that much pressing love coming
out of them. When he would say he would interact with angels,
he pretty much loses his ability to describe it. He says that they are pure love, there’s nothing
but love. It’s beyond me to describe. Sandra: Yeah. Curtis: He’ll try, but I think you’ll get
that from people who have had near-death experiences. They can try and put it into words… Sandra: But they can’t. Curtis: Yeah. He finds himself in the same boat. Sandra: Yeah. What does he say as far as the purpose of
life? You started in the show talking about suffering
— I mean, I’ve known some pretty bad suffering and I know I’ve known just a small amount
of what some people have experienced, but what’s the point of it all? Curtis: From what I understand, it’s… we’re
in this second sort of womb right now. If you think of what’s the point of being
in the womb before we’re born, it’s to grow and develop because you have to grow and develop
in that particular environment. You know, in the womb you have the amniotic
fluid, you’re protected from the elements, given all the food you need, all the oxygen
you need. You couldn’t go through these stages out here
in this world, because you need that environment. Similarly, we’re in this environment because
we need this environment to grow and develop before we can go into the spiritual world. This level of existence has different conditions
than are available there. For example, here, you can kind of be duplicitous
or you can sort of think one thing but say another thing, or try to put up a front. You know? To please people. Sandra: Yes. Curtis: That actually can be used negatively,
but it’s actually an important tool. Swedenborg says that in the spiritual world,
you just are what you are. You don’t really have impulse control, you
don’t really have a filter. You just go. And if we did that now, that would be a problem,
you know, because we all have stuff to work on. We have a chance because you can think one
thing and feel a different thing, I can say, “Oh, I’m really wanting to think something
nasty about that person, say something nasty to them, behave dysfunctionally.” But I’m actually not going to do it. We have the chance to push back and learn
in that way, and through that, we’re forming our spirit. Those choices we make in the face of things
like suffering or negativity, that’s forming our spirit so that once — at the end of life,
the spirit we’ve formed through the things we’ve chosen and loved in life, then that’s
fully developed and ready to be in the spiritual world so that we are going through this life
because we have to have these conditions to develop. In regard to suffering in particular, Swedenborg
says that nothing bad is allowed unless, in the end, it can be used for good. So I mean, we have me, Curtis talking about
at 18, 19, 20, I was going through this really hard stuff. I can even see in retrospect that I learned
so much. Like, I’m more empathetic now, I’m deeper
now and that was what led me and continues to lead me to this, you know, craving for
the truth and this search for the truth and this living the principles I find in Swedenborg
and other sources and wanting to pass it on. If it weren’t for those hardships, I would’ve
never had that. That desire to do that, so all the things
in our lives that are tough are only allowed to the extent that, in the end — there is
suffering, and I’m not trying to trivialize that, but thinking down the road, you know,
if life is eternal, we’re at some point going to be able to look back and go, it was all
worth it. I am who I am because of all of this. And you see this — there was a near-death
experience by someone named Beverly Broadsky, you can look her up on YouTube. She has a great account. She was at the INS Conference. And she had her near-death experience when
she was young 20’s. And she had a lot of upset towards the world
— the Vietnam war was going on, she didn’t have a why towards why do people suffer? She said when she saw the reasons, she thought,
oh I get it. This all makes sense. When she came back, she couldn’t remember
those or articulate them, but that seems to be a common theme. When people see the plan, they think okay. It all makes sense. The idea is even though it doesn’t seem like
that at all, we can have some confidence and some comfort in the idea that all of this
is for our — all of this is bringing the best out of an imperfect situation, which
is us living in a world where people are free to either be nice or mean to each other, and
all the sort of residual suffering that comes out of that. So, you know, that’s like my… you know,
my pithy attempt to answer that quickly. We’ve done several shows on the topic. That’s the main question, you know. But those are sort of the beginning thoughts
on the whole thing. And it’s not like I have that all figured
out — if I’m in my house trying to get something ready and I knock over a glass full of water
or something, it’s very hard for me at that moment to feel like everything has a purpose. Sandra: Right. Curtis: Why that? Come on. Okay, I get it but why that? I’m still learning, but I do believe that
in my better states, that we are going to — because I can see it with some things in
my own life. Things at one time, I didn’t like but now,
wow. I’m really lucky for the position I’m in now
because of those things. Sandra: Yeah. My dad died almost six years ago, and that
was the most suffering and really tough time. Never in a million years would I have ever
thought I’d be having a show about life after death, helping people through grief. Curtis, there’s been people who haven’t committed
suicide because of my words and the show and this book, and it’s like… in the moment,
it was all happening. I would’ve never thought that my deepest,
darkest despair would turn into something like this. But looking back, it has. As advice to someone who may be going through
really tough times right now — in the moment, it’s really hard to have the answers but there
is something called faith and trust that perhaps in the future, you’ll make a profound difference
for someone else or have a better life because of it. Curtis: Yeah. I don’t think we can ever be trying to take
away people’s pain entirely, but as you said… as you said, there is an element of comfort. I don’t think we can eradicate suffering,
but there can be less based on these principles like you talked about. Sandra: Yeah, the human body isn’t an easy
thing to live in. There’s all sorts of chemical make-ups, and
depression is real. And even just seeing some of the things in
what’s going on in our world and some of the tough things that people are doing to one
another, you know, it’s a scary place with our mind and what we believe is the truth
or may be hurting other people. Yeah, planet Earth is not always the happiest
place to be. Curtis: No, nope. Sandra: But if we do believe in a much bigger
picture, it can get us through the darkest of times. Curtis, what are your favorite things — do
you have any favorite episodes is what I’m thinking to ask you now. Curtis: Oh, the funny thing is, I really like
our episodes that we did about the dark side of things. Sandra: Really? Curtis: Yes. The reason that I do is because those are
actually the ones that people come up to us and say, “That helped me more often than any
other.” It’s people you just described with the problems
— people are doing tough things to each other, and inside people’s minds they’re being attacked
in all these ways. Swedenborg say the root causes of all that
stuff and describes it, and when you describe it to people, they experience such a liberation
from it. Like, “Oh, that’s why this is happening? That’s how I can deal with it.” That can really — you wouldn’t think so,
it’s counter-intuitive, but that can be the most comforting stuff to people. That’s what I’ve found. Sandra: It makes sense. I’m thinking of grief and that’s something
personal to me. Anybody who said, “Oh, just get over it. Dad died. It should only be a few weeks and you’re fine.” Versus someone who has lived with it, or depression
in your case. It sure does help to hear somebody who’s been
through it, so that the dark side episodes make sense to me. Curtis: Yeah, there’s a tendency that I want
to point out that people sometimes think just because we have spiritual ideas, or beliefs
we don’t need to go through the process that grief, things like that. Like, “Oh, don’t you believe in life after
death?” That’s not how it works. Death is really hard thing and you need to
give yourself space — you know, when I was young. When I was like six, my sister died and she
was just a year and a half older than me. Even now, you live with the residual effects
of that and it’s not like just now I’ve got all this Swedenborg in my brain so that doesn’t
affect me anymore. We are, you know, biological machines and
we are emotional creatures. You can’t just unthink how you’re wired and
think your way out of all wounds. But there are a certain amounts of — like
if you actually get a deep wound, you can’t just command it to heal but you can take care
of it, clean it and provide comfortable medicine. And that’s more the role that I see this stuff
playing, rather than saying, “Yeah, okay now you don’t have to grieve for your dad.” No, the truism there is realizing that you
need to grieve as much as you need it and your grief isn’t necessarily going to look
like anyone else. The kinds of things that people learn only
really by studying and going through it themselves. Sandra: Mmm-hmm. That’s the best kind of learning there is. Curtis: Absolutely. And so, that’s where all the stuff for the
channel that we work on comes from, is trying to take these principles, apply them to life. See how does this work, does this make sense,
and once I feel like I’ve got something that we can pass along, you know, we pass it along. And it’s not just me working on the channel. We have a team of people that are doing graphics
and writing and you know, the channel wouldn’t be what it is without them and they also all
work with me at the Swedenborg Foundation, so I just wanted to let people know it’s not
just me. Sandra: Will you let them know that they do
a great job? Because when I’m watching your channel, I
have dreams one day of having We Don’t Die TV and I’m like, I could never do what these
people do. It’s so awesome, the graphics and the scripts
and the questions and your guests. Really phenomenal stuff. What is the Swedenborg Foundation? Curtis: What is it? Sandra: Yeah. Curtis: It’s a non-profit organization that
has been around — I don’t even have it memorized, it’s much more than 100 years that it’s been
an organization. It was originally just a translator and publisher
of Swedenborg’s books. So it existed, I think it was originally in
New York State, or maybe New York City and it was called something else but then it moved
and now it’s headquartered in Westchester, Pennsylvania. And it would print Swedenborg’s books and
translate them, that’s all it did. But then in the 80’s, there were people sitting
around, saying “Barely anyone is reading these books. How do we get them out to people?” So that began kind of a new phase of Swedenborg
Foundation where they were trying to publish collateral books, because when you come upon
his books, they’re daunting. They can be a bit intimidating. Sandra: Yes, yes. Curtis: If you don’t happen to have a taste
for 1750’s philosophy. They’re long and they’re strange. You open them up and you’ll hear him talking
about spirits and how they affect you and all this outer-body stuff, and mixing that
in with Christian sounding stuff. It’s just — a lot of people I would imagine
would just open and shut it. You know? It’s just like that. So it actually takes giving it some time to
find the gold in there. So the Swedenborg Foundation thought it was
a problem, so we’re publishing simpler books to get them into it. They dabbled in other things, they did a video
back in the day and it was just a few years ago, three years ago I think, that I began
working with Swedenborg Foundation and this is part of the new online push we’re doing
now. We have a couple of social media networks,
we have our videos, we have our website and the mission statement is to foster an affirmatively
broad conversation around the ideas of Swedenborg. The heart of it is people who have found Swedenborg,
love it and think it can do some good and are trying to get people to listen and, “Stop,
wait wait. Give this a second chance that there might
be something that’ll change your life in here.” Sandra: It’s interesting because when I began
my life after death research, long before my book… long before my dad died, I had
downloaded some books and when I had seen your videos, I thought gosh, Swedenborg…
that sounds familiar. So I had downloaded all these free books on
my Kindle, and even knowing that I was going to interview you today, I decided to open
one random one, and it was to me so heavy and like, I think I’d rather watch his videos. (Laughter) Not that I won’t give him a second chance. Curtis: That keeps us in business. If he was easier to read, then you may not
need those videos in the first place. Sandra: Yeah, and they’re really just great. Curtis: Thank you. Sandra: What else haven’t I asked you that
I really should, or what you might want to share? Curtis: Well, I want to say — if you guys
want to check them out for yourself, every Monday night we broadcast. I guess you said that in the beginning. Sandra: Well say it again. Curtis: So it’s Youtube.com/offthelefteye. Off The Left Eye comes from a spiritual experience
that Swedenborg had where he said that he was being shown what the dying process is
like, just so he could report on it, and he said that he was sort of put through it but
yet a part of him was conscious so he could take notes, or remember it and write it. And he said that at first, his soul was being
awakened and at first, he was in this purely emotive place and he was in contact with Heaven,
close to his heart but he wasn’t really thinking about anything. But when he started to stir and wake up, there
were these angels that came and gave him use of his spiritual sight and they did that. He said that it seemed like a covering was
pulled off his left eye that gave him that sight. And there’s all sorts of symbolism with left
and right and eyes, so that’s what the channel is named after, that experience. Sandra: Oh, that’s neat. I was wondering what that was all about. Curtis: Yep, and people online are like, “What
is that?” “Is that Illuminati?” “What does that mean?” But there’s everything that has a correspondence
or symbolism. The left side is intellectual, the right side
is volitional. Swedenborg actually anticipated the modern
science regarding the hemispheres of the brain through his spiritual discoveries, but the
coolest thing about Swedenborg — our show is called “Swedenborg in Life” because you
can look at any facet of life and understand it, in my opinion, better through Swedenborg’s
concepts. It’s not regulated to us talking about after
we die, or we just talk about theology. The way you look at everything, the way you
look at people, other lifeforms, the way you look at relationships, the way you look at
events… it can all be upgraded by the way he describes it. I still feel like I’m just beginning learning
what he’s really talking about. I get concepts and suddenly understand something
like I never did before. Because I can read Swedenborg and come back
and go, I never read this before. I didn’t get it. I was once giving a lecture on Swedenborg’s
view of the afterlife… so I was just going back over Heaven and Hell which I had read
before, and I was like, man. I feel like I’ve never read any of this, because
it’s striking me as new. Because with Swedenborg, you have a tendency
sometimes of jumping over things because it is complex or you don’t get what he’s saying
there, but every once in awhile it clicks. I get what he’s talking about, that’s cool. That actually, I can use that today to change
my thought practice. Sandra: Wow. Curtis, you are a huge gift. You and your team, and your angels that are
surrounding you. Curtis: I’m glad you think so, even at the
end of this interview. Sandra: Oh, it just has me want to watch more. And for our listeners right now, I’m bragging
about Curtis but he is the real deal. When I say these episodes are phenomenal,
and just a quick thing for our listeners — if you go to wedontdieradio.com, click on episode
89 which is Curtis Childs’, I have links to his YouTube page, Off The Left Eye, to swedenborg.com,
the foundation… and more. I mean, really just great and Curtis, from
a human being who’s on a journey right now, myself… the ups and downs and life can suck
sometimes and be great other times. I just want to really thank you for taking
the negativity, the depression, your past and whatever still keeps coming up in your
negative mind and turning it into good and turning it into something that has made a
difference in my life and will continue to, and even in so many other lives that you may
never even meet. There’s a picture I want to leave you with,
Curtis. Curtis: Sure. Sandra: And our listener. Many people I’ve interviewed talk about a
near-death experience, and one of the neatest things that many people say is that we have
a life review when it’s over. You review your life and you see your impact
on other people through other people’s perspectives. Well, many Curtis have said that after you
see kind of the negative things and nobody’s judging you, you’re looking at your own life
but you can see the impact of the positive difference you’ve made in their life and the
ripple-effect. So, just the image for you Curtis, is someday
when you have your flash of your life, that you get to see the millions of souls whose
lives have been transformed and the difference they can make in their life all because of
you taking the time, you and your team, to make it possible for us. So I want to thank you. Curtis: Thank you so much. That’s very sweet of you, and we’re going
to keep doing it. We’re not slowing down anytime soon, so those
ripples will go bigger and bigger. Sandra: And you’re only 31, so we’ll be growing
old together and I’ll be following you all the way. Curtis: Sounds good. Sandra: In closing, I want to thank our guest
Curtis Childs who has been our guest today. I want to thank you, our listener for being
here. If these episodes have made a difference for
you, I ask you to share them. Whether you found us on iTunes, or YouTube
or our site wedontdieradio.com, press the share button. I’d love to hear from you, [email protected]
is my e-mail. So, in closing, I’m Sandra Champlain. I’ve been your host on We Don’t Die Radio. I believe with all my heart that life is an
education for the soul, and that your life here on Earth is important. And like Curtis Childs’ said earlier in the
interview, “Don’t believe everything you think. The spiritual world is right around you, right
now. You’ve got at least two angels by your side,”
so go forward. Make it a great day — I thank you for listening,
and we’ll see you soon.


42 thoughts on “Episode 89 Swedenborg expert Curtis Childs on We Don’t Die Radio Show”

  • I follow OTLE, and SF. Great interview Curtis. Helping the human race, and the Animal Kingdom. Helping all living beings is heavenly. I totally agree that having SF, and OTLE in your life does make a difference. Wonder though about the 'two angels' everyone is supposed to have; what kind of angels are with those who kill, and abuse…..

  • I like the idea of life in this physical world being like a second womb, a necessary experience for the development of our eternal, spiritual self.

  • I literally listened to the entire broadcast. Thanks for making this and keep up your positive works. Much love πŸ‘Œ

  • I love OffTheLeftEye which I have tuned into for the last couple of years. Curtis is an amazing host & the structure of his show is always in-depth and poignant. Totally a 'rock star' – a special mystic – one can see it in his eyes!

  • Alexander Jeffrey Hackney says:

    Wow , this episode escaped me! What a great collaboration! Happy to have found it one year on πŸ™πŸ»πŸ™πŸ»πŸ™πŸ»

  • I came across swenenburg after my mother who was my best friend too died and i needed answers so bad to try to live on with out her and curtis childs teaching completly help in me healing and still does presently

  • The physical worlds reflecting the spiritual world more and more????/ What about the New World Order? Its not a conspiracy, check it out. And what about these crazy elites like the Rothchilds who worship Lucifer and are involved in pedophilia and child sacrifices? Go on twitter follow ex Navy Seal Craig Sawyer who are fighting these horrific pedophile rings-vets4childrescue

  • Jackhammer 1155 says:

    such a great show. i asked curtis once what lead him to do this. but now i know tue whole story. when cameron passed and went to heaven he pointed me to this show. it was like dad this is the way it is. its what i have experienced. cameron has showed me the things i have leared from this show that heaven is for real. and i cant wait to go and be with my son. my best freind. thank you god bless all of us

  • Everything said here is Positive. God wants the best for us eventhough we dont understand everything and He even provided us with guides and angels and ofcourse the freewill to choose in this life and in the afterlife. God also let our departed love ones conmunicate to us. Isnt that Unbelievable πŸ˜ƒ GOD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME.

  • Wow Swedenborg on another platform
    I shall have to see if you have any Edgar Casey episodes
    By the way Curtis is a LEGEND !

  • Lasamuel Hobson says:

    I used to think that we are defined based on the thoughts of others or the majority. That simply isn't true which is also the reason you judge you in the afterlife, not others. Your emotional standpoint of something being said are done to you or others is personal because it is based on your interpretation. Why, because you can empathize, sympathise but you are still in your own world. All truths are true because of this, even that one

  • Lasamuel Hobson says:

    What people define as good and bad is based on what they do and or don't like but truthfully, it is all God therefore all Love. You can't think of anything bad or evil until you define it as such.

  • Lasamuel Hobson says:

    Everything is neutral/has no meaning until you define it. Meditation allows one to open up because your focus becomes timeless. You become more yourself, love/one. Imagination are/is a way to see with another set of eyes we aren't completely focused on yet is a tool we create from

  • I'm NOT religious, nor desior too. I have a problem with the saying "Swedenborg says…" That's all great for Swedenborg in 1600-1700's. But for our lives NOW has come to being probably because of many lives we have lived before and NOW!. When a person has a NDE regardless of their position in life. They are shown something that is just for them. Something "They" are going through and living. Your family members have been mentioned, seen, heard in your NDE. Swedenborg has never been mentioned in any NDE's that I have heard of. So when I hear "Swedenborg says…" I 'Stop' and think/listen about what my passed away Family members would say instead. I'm sure it's just me, "The loner one." (did I mention Rebellious?) -Reed Portland, Oregon! P.S. Anyone ever hear about what "Jesus or Mohammed, said?"

  • Nicolle Spencer-Hartman says:

    I have been an OffTheLeftEye/ Curtis Childs supporter, a huge fan to put it mildly, for 3 years and it changed my life!! Curtis is a rockstar, so was Swedenborg. I'm a die hard fan of We "Dont Die Radio" too, so thank you both, great show!! I cant so enough great things. @OffTheLeftEye and @We dontDieRadio

  • It doesn't seem that Swedenborg's material will ever have an audience in the hundreds of thousands for quite some time to come, if ever!!

  • FountainOf Light says:

    That's funny, that's exactly how I found Swedenborg too, a total accident and I fell in love. Curtis is hilarious and has a likable personality. I go to offTheLeftEye whenever I need some uplifting. If you're not familiar with Emmanuel Swedenborg you should check him out. They even offer his books for download for FREE, you can pay if you want to help support their channel. Love them all.

  • @46:00 mins, the part where Curtis talks about spilling the cup of water and wondering HOW in the world could everything have a purpose! Well, I do that same thing too, but looking back in retrospect and also hearing this example, I suppose it could be to help us still, to learn how to also calm down even when petty situations like these occur, to still look on the bright side, not to get all bent out up shape, nor to let it ruin our day in any way, to help us to understand that no matter what happens (big thing or little thing), we are still in control of how we allow those things any control over our daily blueprint for long-term self-control and journey to happiness. At least it was only water and wasn't grape juice! Hehe…

  • ❀ Curtis rocks! 😎 Nice to hear him interviewed for once. If I were his mom, I'd be SO proud of him! I AM so proud of him. Thanks so much! 🌞

  • Christopher Booth says:

    This was a great episode. I’ve watched Curtis before on YouTube and this will definitely draw me back to listen to more of his content about Swedenborg. I love we don’t die radio because of all the diverse topics just like this episode. This comes at the perfect time for me because I just lost my father a few weeks ago and am still grieving the loss of my brother to melanoma skin cancer. Sincerely, thank you πŸ™!!

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